Long Read | Liu Yujia: The Landscape of Invisible Time

Interview By Lin Jia Translated by Bridget Noetzel

In a moment of confusion and anxiety, Liu Yujia made a long journey deep into Karamay, Xinjiang. In a place in the Gobi Desert far from the ocean, she experienced something pelagic. The exploited land had never previously opened itself to humans, and the transported time had always returned to its origins. Travelers who come to this place are forced to remain static and unchanged. In her video work, Liu depicts a landscape that reflects her inner world. The piece takes us on a long voyage; it is the key to an Anywhere Door that leads to imagined landscapes. Perhaps, for Liu, the color black is an underground river of her private moods, and for viewers, black is a mineral vein of the layered imagination of countless people.

ArtWorld (AW): Can you tell us a bit about your life and education from childhood onward?

Liu Yujia (LYJ): I liked painting since I was a small child, but my score on the art academy entrance examinations wasn’t high enough to get into the Oil Painting Department. As a result, I did my undergraduate studies in the Graphic Art Department at the Sichuan Fine Arts Institute. After I graduated, I went to the UK and did my master’s degree at the London College of Communication at the University of the Arts London. After finishing my master’s and returning to China, I didn’t go into design; I worked in the art industry for two years. I had just turned 30, and I was really confused and anxious. I realized that I needed to do what I wanted to do, so I quit my job and started to make my own work.

AW: Before traveling to Karamay in 2015 to shoot Black Ocean (2016), your work wasn’t connected to a particular region. Why did you want to work on western China? What influenced you?

LYJ: Before making Black Ocean, I had done some photography and a few videos. My work generally came from my own interests, such as a novel or an oil painting I liked, or simply weaving together things I imagined. My previous video works were all shot in front of sets in a studio, and I think that my work from that time was intended to satisfy my personal curiosity. Looking back, these works do not directly connect with reality or the outside world. I was often unsure about what the work actually meant to me. Even today, I still think about how I should resolve this issue. I saw something once in an interview, and I forget who the interview was with, but he said, “For some artists, creating art is a difficulty that must be overcome.” At first, I didn’t have a lot of personal experience with this, but later, I had more of a connection to it.

When I went to Xinjiang to shoot Black Ocean, I wasn’t thinking about the concepts of western China or the borderlands. Personally, I had to go there. I had to go to an entirely unfamiliar world that was distant from my own reality; I had to walk toward a vast horizon that I could see, a place that did not feel part of any particular time. This desire was closely related to my mindset and living circumstances at the time. My starting point was very private and perceptual, and not a rational plan. I didn’t even really approach it from an artistic perspective. By visiting Karamay and experiencing the entire process from shooting to editing and finally completing the work, I was able to shake off my problems and resolve some of my own issues. This was very important for me.

AW: Why did you choose to shoot Black Ocean in Karamay and present this place as a strange world? Where specifically did you shoot?

LYJ: I have always been very interested in the concept of landscape. Whether Eastern or Western, humans invest emotion in landscapes. They are no longer seen as our homes; they are more like grand backdrops that appear, for our enjoyment, in poetry, literature, painting, and film. When I said that I was looking out over the landscape, you would find it hard to imagine what I was seeing, so landscape is abstract. If it was just the Gobi Desert and the hills, then it would simply be nature in its original state—it wouldn’t be a landscape. Landscapes need to have a human dimension. Landscape is only a kind of “secondary nature” produced through human practices and activities. I didn’t want to go somewhere that was purely natural, because the works made there could become lyrical and scenic. I chose Karamay not simply because it had complex landforms that interested me; it also had a large swathe of human-influenced landscape engulfed by a natural one. As everyone knows, the area where I was shooting is home to massive oil wells built on the Gobi Desert and the alkali soil band, so there is a lot of conflict and instability—there are so many layers. On the other hand, the area is heavily surveilled. For regional and political reasons, no one besides the workers are permitted to enter. It was really mysterious, and I really wanted to go there and explore the place. Due to some fortunate external factors, I received a permit to shoot, so that I could work freely there as an internal photographer.

I shot the piece in Baijiantan, Orku, and Dushanzi Districts in Karamay, as well as the Kumtag Desert and the Dabancheng Wind Farm.

Liu Yujia, Black Ocean, single-channel video, color, sound, 38’35”, 2016

Liu Yujia (left) and a worker shooting Black Ocean, November 2015

Liu Yujia (right) and a worker shooting Black Ocean, November 2015

AW: Did you have a concrete, precise plan before you traveled to Karamay? Prior to shooting, did you have a clear idea of what the final look, pacing, and narration would be like? Or did the concept for the work form gradually after you arrived in Karamay and saw the Gobi Desert?

LYJ: Before shooting, I just had a few general ideas. I wanted it to be like a series of travel notes, and I thought that it would be a multi-channel video, so that different times and places could be simultaneously shown in the gallery space and viewers could wander between them. I later threw out all of these ideas. Before I left, I had not figured out any of the details [of the video], because I had never been there before. I hadn’t even gone location scouting. In short, I just took action. One month after I arrived in Karamay, I had immersed myself in the place, and some feelings gradually formed. The shoots were simply to accumulate source material, and the more important work was done in the editing process. Details such as the pacing and narration all took shape after I had returned to Beijing.

AW: How long did it take to shoot Black Ocean? How did you live during the shoot? Did the shoot go smoothly, or did you sometimes feel lonely or isolated?

LYJ: I shot for a month. I stayed in a hotel in Baijiatan, which as a residential zone set up like a small town. Every day, the two workers and I would return to the town to spend the night. We would drive out to the location around 8:00 or 9:00 a.m., then come back around 8:00 p.m. The shoots were delightful because there was no script. The shoot was random; we went in a general direction and captured whatever we encountered. It even felt a bit like sightseeing. There were a lot of pleasant surprises that I could never have imagined. There was one brief incident, though. One day when we were shooting, we had not worn the work uniform that the rules required, and it was also the weekend. When we encountered a patrol, the photography permit we presented could not be verified on the spot, and we were seen as suspicious persons and taken to the police station. That was the first time I had been taken to a police station for questioning, and I felt very excited, curious, and happy.

I felt the loneliest when the sun set during the winter. In the golden radiance, I stood on the top of a mountain looking at the silvery petroleum pipeline glittering on the ground and snaking away from me, as the motorcade on the highway gradually disappeared into the distant horizon.

AW: What do the words “black” and “ocean” in the title mean to you?

LYJ: I always associate the ocean with the word “pelagic,” which feels meditative, solemn, and vast. Farther away, it’s like an isolated void that swallows everything. Xinjiang is located inland, in a place that’s very far from the sea, but I had a similar experience there. There’s a subtitle in Black Ocean that reads: “It is built atop a deep, subterranean sea. On the perimeter lies an invisible coastline.” That encapsulates what I mean. “Black” is a sensory experience, which is related to that landscape and my frame of mind at the time.

AW: When creating Black Ocean, what principles did you use to select your subjects, your framing angles, your post-production color mixing, and your scene editing?

LYJ: I didn’t have too many foundational principles, but I really like capturing landscape with long takes shot from quite a distance away. There are a lot of grand long takes of landscape in the video, and the figures are reduced to tiny points. It shows that the presence of landscape makes violence, savagery, and all other human activities seem unimportant, or even negligible. I have always used this way of capturing this transcendent and calm feeling.

Liu Yujia, Black Ocean, Single-channel video, color, sound, 38’35’’, 2016

AW: The narration from Black Ocean comes from Italo Calvino’s Invisible Cities. In Invisible Cities, Marco Polo claims that you can build a city in your mind with description and imagination. Do you really believe that? Before you went to Karamay, did you have a vision of the city? What information was that vision based on? Did you try to collect or avoid information about the place?

LYJ: Literature is more abstract and profound than film. The things you feel when reading are not things that you can see and touch; you need to make full use of your imagination to construct the things you read. The methods and outcomes are different for every reader. However, film offers real, very concrete images. Therefore, in post-production, I used the narrative structure of the conversations between Marco Polo and Kublai Khan to give those concrete images a searching, questioning ambience. I also made significant revisions to the text of Invisible Cities, in order to explore the relationship between the text and the landscape. We need to consider how we read the text and how we perceive the images, as well as how we imagine things when the texts and images are put together.

I knew almost nothing about Karamay before I went there. The only things I did know came from some news images that appeared in an online search. The pictures offer a new media perspective that, for me, only provides a basic understanding of the local situation.

AW: Do you want viewers to see the Gobi Desert and the lonely oil field roads in Black Ocean as a real place in western China, or a strange place that is distant from their everyday lives?

LYJ: What I shot was certainly a real place; its landforms and landscapes clearly indicate its geographical position, but I don’t think that this is a very real and concrete place in the film. I stayed there a month, but it still felt very far away. This distance is mingled with an ambiguous space. I found it very difficult to truly understand, and my comprehension of it may be superficial, but n another way, it almost seemed within my grasp. For me, I think that this is the most appropriate distance from which to imagine and tell a story about a place. Directly and concretely reflecting a world is not a starting point for me. Estrangement may be a creative method; by making the subject puzzling or more romantic, we can re-examine some basic assumptions about our own circumstances and the outside world.

AW: Your work The Koh Larn Island also incorporates notable characteristics of the surrounding region, but the character’s own story runs throughout. In addition, the normal temporal pacing of the shots shows that the work is depicting a specific place, time, and person. However, Black Ocean has a more distant relationship with the truth; there are traces of humanity, but the equipment, buildings, and workers become part of the landscape. What holds the greater appeal for you: overall landscapes or individual stories?

LYJ: I situated the story of the vagrant in The Koh Larn Island within the island landscape. I’ve always been interested in the dynamic relationships between humans and landscapes, spaces, and places. 

AW: While shooting Black Ocean, what experience left the most profound impression on you?

LYJ: My most profound experience of that place was the temporal contradictions and divisions. The landscapes and landforms made you feel as if time was a very long, slow accumulation of moments, or that time had stopped completely. But at the same time, you also saw the repetitive motions of the nodding donkeys, day in and day out. The workers were always busy, and the shuttle buses that picked them up and dropped them off would process down the highway at the appointed hour. Time seemed to have changed. Every second seemed to count, and time was linked to massive, efficient economic interests.

AW: Was making work about western China a one-off experience? Or will you return to make work in the region? Why?

LYJ: Right now, I’m planning a new video work that’s also about this region. I do have some regrets about Black Ocean; I’ve always thought it wasn’t enough. Perhaps more importantly, I’m drawn to the landscape, the landforms, and the history of the area.

A Chinese translation of Italo Calvino’s Invisible Cities

访谈 | 刘雨佳:看不见时间的风景

采访 | 蔺佳 译 | 那瑞洁

在一个迷茫而焦虑的时刻,刘雨佳选择远行,她来到大陆的深处——新疆克拉玛依。在这最远离海洋的戈壁荒漠,她体会到一种远洋性。被开采的大地不曾向人类打开自己,被搬运的时间总是循环到原点,来到这里的旅人被迫静止且保持不变。刘雨佳用影像来描述她心内映射的风景,而阅读与远行一样,也是通往想象中的风景的任意门钥匙。也许,对于艺术家本人,黑色是个人隐秘心境的暗河,而对于观众,黑色是无数人想象力叠加后的矿脉。

ArtWorld:能否介绍一下你从小到大求学生活的移动轨迹?

刘雨佳:我从小很喜欢画画,但高考考美术学院的时候专业分不够,就没考进油画系,因此我本科念的是四川美术学院设计艺术系。本科毕业后我去了英国,在伦敦艺术大学传媒学院念硕士,硕士毕业回国后也未从事设计行业,而是在艺术行业工作了两年。当时我刚刚过了30岁,很迷茫,也特别焦虑,觉得还是要做自己想做的事,于是我就辞职,开始尝试着创作了。

ArtWorld:在2015年到新疆克拉玛依拍摄《黑色海洋》(2016)之前,你的创作并没有与特定的地域建立联系,为什么想要去西部做创作,有什么影响你的因素?

刘雨佳:在创作《黑色海洋》之前,我做过摄影,也拍过几个录像作品,基本是从个人兴趣出发,比如它们来源于我喜欢的一本小说、我喜欢的一张油画或纯粹是个人想象的一种编织。之前的录像作品全部都是在影棚里搭建场景拍摄完成的,我想那个阶段的创作对我来说更多是为了满足个人兴趣,现在看来,这些创作并不直接和所谓的现实或外界发生关系。我也时常困惑创作对我来说到底意味着什么。直到现在,我也在思考和想要解决这个问题。我曾经在一本访谈里看到过这样一句话,虽然我不记得是谁说的了,他说:“对于一些艺术家来讲,创作就是要摆脱困境”。起初我对这句话也不是十分有切身体会,后来则对此有些感触。

我当时到新疆拍摄《黑色海洋》,其实并未想过“西部”或“边疆”这些概念。对我来说,我是不得不去到那里,去到那种远离我自身现实的完全陌生的世界,进入一种广阔的、能看到地平线,甚至没有时代感痕迹的地方。这和我当时的心境、生活状态有密切关系。这个出发点其实是很私密和感性的,并不是一个理性的规划,甚至不是从艺术创作的角度出发的。我通过去到那里,从拍摄到剪辑、到最终完成一件作品的过程而摆脱了当时的困境,解决了自身的一些问题。这对我是非常重要的。

ArtWorld:为什么《黑色海洋》选择在中国的克拉玛依拍摄,将这里表现为一个陌生的世界,具体的拍摄地点是哪里?

刘雨佳:我对“风景”这个概念一直很感兴趣,不论是东方还是西方,风景都和人类的移情有关,风景不再被视为一种栖息之地,而是像一个被凝视的昂贵的背景一般,出现在诗歌、文学、绘画甚至电影里。当我说我正在眺望一片风景,你将很难推测我具体在看什么,所以风景是抽象的。如果它只是一片荒芜的沙漠、戈壁、山丘,那么它只是一种天然存在的自然,并不能成为一种“风景”。风景中需要有“人”这样一个纬度,即要有人的生产实践活动而形成的“第二自然”才有可能成为“风景”。我并不想去到一个纯自然的地方,那样做出来作品可能会变成一种很抒情、很“风光”的东西。选在克拉玛依拍摄,不仅因为它具有我感兴趣的复杂地貌,还因为它有大片的人造风景淹没在自然风景之中。众所周知,我拍摄的区域是一个建于戈壁和盐碱地带的巨大石油开采基地,这里面有很多冲突和不稳定性,它自身有很多层次。另一方面,那一片区域其实是一片被管制的区域,由于地缘和政治局势的原因,非工作人员被禁止入内。因此它又很神秘,我很想进入它,探索它。当时刚好有一些外部条件促成,我拿到了拍摄许可,可以用内部摄影师的身份进入那里自由拍摄。

具体拍摄地点是克拉玛依的白碱滩区、乌尔禾区与独山子区,后来还去了库木塔格沙漠和达坂城风力发电站。

刘雨佳,《黑色海洋》,单频电影,彩色,有声,38分35秒,2016

刘雨佳(左)和工作人员在拍摄《黑色海洋》,2015年11月

刘雨佳(右)和工作人员在拍摄《黑色海洋》,2015年11月

ArtWorld:《黑色海洋》的创作是你有了非常具体明确的计划之后才身赴克拉玛依拍摄的吗?你在拍摄前是否对最终作品的画面、节奏、旁白文本已经有了清晰的想法?还是说作品的概念是在到达克拉玛依,看到戈壁沙漠后才慢慢形成的?

刘雨佳:拍摄之前我只有大概的意向,比如我想把它做成一个游记似的作品,它应该是一件多频录像,不同的时间或场景同时出现在展厅,观众可以随意游走,但后来这些想法都被推翻了。在动身前,所有的细节都是未知的,因为我从未去过那里,拍摄之前甚至没有去堪景。总之,我就是行动了。到达克拉玛依后的一个月,我把自己放入那个地方,一些感受才逐渐形成。拍摄只是素材的累积,更重要的创作是在剪辑过程中完成的,比如节奏、旁白文本等细节,都是回到北京后才慢慢思考形成的。

ArtWorld:《黑色海洋》拍摄了多久,拍摄期间你的生活如何解决?拍摄过程是否顺利,是否有觉得孤独或孤立的时刻?

刘雨佳:拍了一个月。我住在白碱滩的一个旅馆,白碱滩有一片类似小镇的生活区,我和我的两个工作人员每天都要返回镇上过夜。上午大概八九点开车出去拍摄,晚上八点返回住处。拍摄过程其实很愉快,因为没有脚本,所以拍摄很随机,向着一个大方向前进,撞到什么就拍什么,甚至有点半游玩的性质,所以出现了很多我意想不到的惊喜。其中有个小插曲,某天我们拍摄时没按规定穿着正规的工作服,而且那天是周末,因此在遇到巡视人员盘查时,我们出示的拍摄许可无法得到相关部门的核实,结果我们被当作可疑份子抓进了派出所。那是我第一次被抓进派出所接受查问,我觉得兴奋、好奇和开心。

我感到最孤独的时刻是冬日夕阳西下的时候,金色的光辉撒下来,我站在山顶看着银色的输油管道在地面上闪闪发光、向外延伸,公路上的车队逐渐模糊消失在远方地平线上。

ArtWorld:作品标题的“海洋”和“黑色”分别指什么?

刘雨佳:“海洋”我理解为一种“远洋性”(pelagic),它有一种冥想般的、庄严浩瀚的质感。更远一点,它就像一个孤绝的空洞,吞噬了所有。新疆地处内陆,是距离海洋最遥远的地方,但我在那里获得了与之类似的体验。所以《黑色海洋》的影像里配有一句字幕:“它建在地下海之上,它的周边是看不见的海岸线。”指的就是这个意思。“黑色”是一种感官体验,和那片风景以及我当时的心境有关。

 ArtWorld:在《黑色海洋》的创作中,你对拍摄素材的选择、取景角度、后期画面的调色、镜头剪辑有什么原则性的设定吗?

刘雨佳:其实没有太多原则上的设定,但我很喜欢使用远距离视点的长镜头去拍摄风景。影像里有很多大远景风景镜头,人物在画面中只不过是一小点。我们会发现,风景的存在会让暴力、野蛮等一切人类活动显得无关紧要,甚至微乎其微,所以我一直使用这种方式去捕捉那种超然、冷静的感觉。

刘雨佳,《黑色海洋》,单频电影,彩色,有声,38分35秒,2016

ArtWorld:《黑色海洋》的旁白引用了卡尔维诺的《看不见的城市》,就像《看不见的城市》中马可波罗所表述的,通过描述和想象能在头脑中建立一座城市。你自己是否信服这一点?在去到克拉玛依之前,你对这个地方有怎样的想象?你对它想象的信息依据来自哪里?你是否曾尽力搜集或者拒绝这些信息?

刘雨佳:其实文学比影像更抽象、更深邃。你通过阅读感受到的东西并不是看得见摸得着的,你需要充分发挥想象力去建构你阅读到的东西,这种想象的方式和结果对每个读者来说是完全不一样的。但影像会给出一个实实在在的,非常具体的画面。所以,我在后期创作中,使用了马可波罗与忽必烈的对答与辩论的这种叙述结构,它会让具体的影像画面一直处于一种被探寻和被诘问的氛围中。同时我也对《看不见的城市》的文字进行了大量的改写,来找寻这些文字与那片风景之间的关系:一方面我们是如何阅读文字的,另一方面我们又是如何感知图像的,当文字和图像在一起时我们又是如何去想象的。

在去到克拉玛依之前,我对它一无所知,唯一所知的是来自网络搜索的一些新闻图片,那些图片完全是新闻媒体式的视角,对我来说也仅仅是提供一种对当地情况的基本了解。

ArtWorld:你希望观众将《黑色海洋》中的戈壁沙漠、寂寥的油田公路认作中国西部的一个实在的地点,还是视为远离自己生活日常的一个陌生地点?

刘雨佳:我拍摄的的确是一个实在的地点,它的地貌、风景都明确指向了它的地理位置。但我并不认为在影片中它是一个很真实而具体的地方。虽然我在那里呆了一个月,但它对我来说仍然非常“远”。这种“远”夹杂着一种模棱两可的空间:一方面我很难真正深入了解它,我对它的理解可能是肤浅的;另一方面似乎它又是触手可及的。我想这种距离对我来说就是最合适进行想象和叙述的距离。直接而具体地去反映一个世界并不是我的出发点。“陌生化”或许也是一种创作手段,它把对象谜题化或者浪漫化,这有助于让我们重新去审视关于自身处境与外部世界之间一些基本假设。

ArtWorld:你的作品《柯兰岛》同样有鲜明的地域特征,但贯穿作品的是人物的自述,加上镜头中正常的时间流速,显得作品是在反映某地、某个时代、某人的真实。但《黑色海洋》与真实的关系非常疏离,尽管出现了人类的痕迹,但这些生产设备、建筑、工人都成为了风景中的一部分。对你来说,整体性的风景和个体的故事哪一个吸引力更大?

刘雨佳:其实《柯兰岛》里流浪汉的故事,我也是将它放置在一个岛屿上的风景下进行的。人类与风景/空间/地方的动态关系是一直都是我很感兴趣的。

ArtWorld:拍摄《黑色海洋》时最深刻的体验是什么?

刘雨佳:我对那个地方最深的体验是一种在时间感上的对立与分裂。一方面那里的风景与地貌让你感到时间具有非常缓慢的累积性特征,时间甚至是完全停滞的。但同时,你又会在这一片风景里看到磕头机日复一日的重复运动,工人每天都在机械地忙碌,接送工人的班车一到准点就会结队在公路上行使,时间似乎又发生了变化,变得分秒必争,跟高效、巨大的经济利益挂靠在一起。

ArtWorld:你在西部的创作会是一次性的经验吗?是否还会回西部做作品?为什么?

刘雨佳:目前我正在筹划一件新的影像作品,还是关于那片地区的。一方面,《黑色海洋》留下了一些遗憾,总觉得还是不够。更重要的,也许就是被那片风景和地貌以及它的历史感所吸引吧。

伊诺塔.卡尔维诺著,张密译,
《看不见的城市》,译林出版社,
2019年